[mtp-teoria] Re: [-] second life na iDC
Miloš VOJTĚCHOVSKÝ
milos.vojtechovsky at famu.cz
Sun Mar 11 14:25:04 CET 2007
here are some links to people i think are interesting for issues as
virtual words
john casti is teaching in viena and working at sante fe institute
perhaps he could be the good person toinvite to bratislava
perhaps to university phylosophic departement
http://www.insna.org/index.html
http://www.wzw.at/index.php?s=4&show=43&la=de
a timeline of gaming from koster book
http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/mudtimeline.shtml
http://homes.eff.org/%7Ebarlow/Declaration-Final.html
john perry barlow declaration of the independence of cyberspace from
1996 more utopic then ten years ago...
...
Governments of the Industrial World, you weary giants of flesh and
steel, I come from Cyberspace, the new home of Mind. On behalf of the
future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome
among us. You have no sovereignty where we gather.
We have no elected government, nor are we likely to have one, so I
address you with no greater authority than that with which liberty
itself always speaks. I declare the global social space we are building
to be naturally independent of the tyrannies you seek to impose on us.
You have no moral right to rule us nor do you possess any methods of
enforcement we have true reason to fear.
Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.
You have neither solicited nor received ours. We did not invite you. You
do not know us, nor do you know our world. Cyberspace does not lie
within your borders. Do not think that you can build it, as though it
were a public construction project. You cannot. It is an act of nature
and it grows itself through our collective actions.....
industrial ICT goverments invaded long time ago the wasteland of the new
cyberland by means of disneyland stalkers and heralds, video and game
entertaining industry..
i came across the article by Neal Stephenson about the science fiction
and ICT
in the beginning was the command line
http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.html
generaly it is juisy issue, but difficult to deal with-- very complex..
dealing with religion, irationality and transcendence . to apply
critical methods to the pop idols young people are adoring because they
have been grown up with and educated with is ofcourse not easy..
i think the whole bussiness of computer gaming is merely debilitating as
most of the moving image industry, with a rare exceptions offcourse..
stretnout ludi ktori ziju v SL by ovsem bylo dost zajimave...
zdravi
milos v
>>> Maria Riskova <maria at nada.sk> 11.3.2007 8:42 >>>
urcite existuje dost ludi, co tam ziju aj u nas - mozeme to pocas
multiplace zistit...
pocas multiplace asi pride do bratislavy kristian lukic z noveho
sadu, ktory na tuto temu rozvija projekty so studentami - mame
moznost stretnut ludi, ktori v SL ziju. mne osobne sa nechce ist
specialne do tohto vyskumu prilis hlboko, skor ma zaujimaju komunitne
aspekty - zuzana prejavila zaujem dozvediet sa o tom viac aj v
rovine ekonomickych mechanizmov (da sa v tom pokracovat aj po
festivale)
ano, "profituju" je spravne slovo - ak sa hovori o materialnych
statkoch. je to celkom fascinujuci fenomen, tato schopnost profitovat
materialne na duchovnom (uz povestne prizivovanie reklamy na
progresivnom umeni) - no nemyslim si, ze treba mat v ramci celeho
multiplace radikalny postoj ne-propagacie ("nebudem propagovat nieco
s cim nesuhlasim ani tym, ze to kritizujem")
nemyslim si tiez, ze co sa tyka SL je to tajomstvo, o ktorom sa
nevie, takisto ako o tom, ze zabavny priemysel je jeden z
najrobustnejsich - podla mna, second life patri k zabavnemu
priemyslu, ale mozno aj k niecomu inemu (???)
otazka je, ci si to uvedomuje aj bezny uzivatel a ci ho to vobec zaujima
a co sa tyka toho, ze "vela uzivatelov je v SL stastnych podobne ako
vedia byt stastni v servilite voci kapitalizmu realneho sveta" - to
ma zaujalo nieco: tzv. kapitalizmus ako ekonomicky a spolocensky
system funguje tak dlho preto, ze ma neobycajnu schopnost
prisposobenia sa novym podmienkam - a verte tomu, ze second life pre
ludi, ktori na nom profituju nie je nic nerealne - burzy a bankove
institucie a aj vobec cely penazny system su predsa zalozene na
virtualnych zakladoch (zasadna kritika je, ze cisla zastupuju realne
komodity a ze takmer vsetko sa dnes moze stat komoditou - tovarom)...
v istom zmysle su tito ludia velmi vpredu v pochopeni virtuality
ale tu sa uz citim dost trapne, pretoze o ekonomike viem figu - a
trapne sa citim aj pri pouzivani terminu kapitalizmus, myslim, ze
odbornici na ekonomiu by sa nam vysmiali, urcite existuje tisic
podforiem a terminov, ktore umoznuju lepsie chapat tieto problemy a
termin kapitalizmus sa dostava k slovam ako imperializmus,
kolonializmus atd. - nenajdeme na mtp niekoho, kto sa v tom vyzna?
ale mozno to nie je take nutne teraz - ale ak sa rozhodneme venovat
sa sietam ako je second life podrobnejsie a urobit prezentaciu pocas
mtp, tak by sme nejakeho odbornika mohli pozvat...
ine svety marka skopa su second life pre nas, co zijeme "inde" - pre
protagonistov dokumentu je to "first life" :)
second life je skor "paralel" life
http://www.getafirstlife.com/
go outside, membership is free :)
caute
marisa
At 10:56 PM +0100 3/10/07, babuta at 34.sk wrote:
>ahoj
>ja nepoznam veru nikoho
>kto by tam "zil"
>a neviem ci by sa mne osobne do toho chcelo,
>budovat si tam nejaky virtualny svet,
>aj ked je pravda, ze o tom vela neviem.
>ze co sa tam akoze deje a ponuka...
>
>{vlastne mtp ak teraz isiel ako spoluorganizator do tych ostrovov, tak
sa
>zaviazal presne k comu? alebo to bol len podpis pro forma?}
>
>no a akurat som bola prisla z kina
>kde som bola druhy krat uz pozriet markove skopove ine svety,
>tak to je podla mna second life...
>
>ale to len tak
>aby sa vedelo
>aj nieco z ineho oneho zitia
>caute
>
>bbt
>
>On Sat, March 10, 2007 7:59 pm, dusan wrote:
>> ahojte
>>
>> na iDC liste prebehla dvojtyzdnova debata o second life (SL). v
sumari
>> nizsie.
>>
>> kto nan nemate cas, zhrnuty v jednej vete: SL a vobec vacsina online
>> virtualnych svetov 'pozuje' ako otvorena platforma a i napriek
vedomiu, ze
>> z "nematerialnej" prace (napr. univerzity do nich klonuju svoje
budovy,
>> aktivisti v nich vedu svoje kampane) profituje viacmenej len elita
online
> > podnikatelov, vela uzivatelov je v SL stastnych podobne ako vedia
byt
> > stastni v servilite voci kapitalizmu realneho sveta..
>>
>> mate so SL niekto skusenosti? neviem v sk/cz zatial o vela ludoch co
ho
>> skusali. (mm trochu to znie ako znie to trochu ako)
>>
>> dusan
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------- Original Message
> > ----------------------------
>> Subject: [iDC] Second Life wrap-up; thanks
>> From: "Joshua Levy" <joshualev at gmail.com>
>> Date: Sat, March 10, 2007 5:27 pm
>> To: "IDC list" <idc at bbs.thing.net>
>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Thanks all for a stimulating discussion about Second Life, gaming,
labor,
>> and education.
>>
>> Who is manufacturing virtual worlds and MMOs? In response to Michel
>> Bauwens question about this, Ana Valdes points out that the games
market
>> is almost 100 percent American, with these large companies having
bought
>> our smaller European companies over time. However, Julian Dibbell
points
>> to a chart that suggests that U.S. companies are in fact
responsible for
>> only 40-60% of worldwide games and the us market share is 61.3%.
The
>> question of market dominance vs. ideological dominance comes into
play
>> here. Ana argues that, even if the market share isn't 100%, most
video
>> games share an ideology with the U.S., though Michel says he
witnesses in
>> Thailand dominant themes from Korea and Japan.
>>
>>
>> And on to the big L, which inspired some of the best discussion on
the
>> cultural ramifications of virtual worlds, virtual labor, and virtual
>> economies. Trebor opened the discussion by questioning the need to
>> replicate the architecture of real-world sites within Second Life.
"Why
>> do we need a replication of our own campus? Why not rather build a
Black
>> Mountain College with a Bauhaus Annex? Why teach in this virtual
>> environment? Will SecondLife become a 3D version of Wikipedia, a
virtual
>> knowledge bank that offers a playful and fun interface to
>> participant-generated content? Will students simply demand such
playful
>> access to knowledge?" he asks. Eric Gordon offers a compelling
argument
>> for why he helped reproduce Emerson College's architecture in SL:
"our
>> decision to reproduce the architectural layout of campus and to
recreate
>> the Boston Common was deliberately made to correspond with our
>> understanding of the platform's possibilities. We see Second Life
as a
>> way of creatively re-imagining the space. While, we're not able to
>> screen student work in the physical Boston Common, it will be
possible to
>> do so in Second Life. "
>>
>> In addition to this recreation of material space, he finds that SL
>> mirrors "first life capitalism" as well, that inequalities between
labor
>> and capital exist there as they do anywhere else in the world.
Like
>> historical relations between labor and capital, Trebor argues that
users
>> of sociable web media are not aware of their servitude towards the
owners
>> of those systems, though, like Michel, I take issue with his
assertion
>> that "many people in the US actually think that they are 'happy' and
>> perceive this distributed labor of the sociable web as a fun leisure
>> activity." We are not in a position to judge what many people in
the
>> U.S..
>> think about their station in life, and to imply that the distributed
labor
>> of the sociable web simply provides gains for the owners of capital
>> while pulling the wool over the eyes of the participants isn't fair
>> towards either party.
>>
>> Alan Clinton offers a refreshing take on the problem of virtual
labor:
>> "At
>> the risk of revising Marcuse, couldn't we say that consciousness of
>> servitude is not really the problem so much as providing strategies
for
>> political agency? People who are laboring know that they are
laboring.
>> People (and let's not dismiss the global south so quickly) who are
>> suffering the violence of capitalism know they are suffering the
violence
>> of servitude. They may lack awareness of ways to name this violence
or
>> attack it, but they are not unaware of their suffering." In response
to
>> the problem of proprietary systems like SL posing as open platforms,
>> Andreas Schiffler suggests a radical, peer-to-peer system that
>> involving shared servers and open source software that become a
challenge
>> to the "'Operating System + Deskop' metaphor sold by Microsoft and
Apple."
>> This setup could also provide an
> > open source and peer-to-peer alternative to SL.
>>
>> In response to Simon Biggs' provocation that "SL is a misnomer. It
is not
>> a second life but simply a kind of first life, as constructed by a
>> dominant elite, represented in such a manner that it will function
to
>> further inculcate and embed its associated ideology on a global
scale. It
>> will sustain the fundamental ethic of consumerism...that we are all
>> potential suckers or grifters (often both) and that nobody is
responsible
>> for what happens to anybody else. In short, it is another rip off
>> culture," I would point him to a group that I'm involved with,
>> RootsCampSL, progressive activists that use SL as a platform for
their
>> work. No one that I know there believes that their work stays in
SL, but
>> that it offers a unique space (in addition to other unique space)
from
>> whic to get the message out. I would agree that SL is not a second
life
>> but in fact an extension of first life, but I have failed to find a
>> dominant ideology there and in fact find it a fertile training
ground for
>> almost any ideology at all -- kind of like first life. Of course, I
>> could just be blind to my own exploitation...
>>
>> And Charlie Gere helps us remember that terrorism, exploitation, or
even
>> rape in SL are not the same as their real-world counterparts.
"Again
>> imagine the reaction of someone who has been involved in attempting
to
>> build and sustain communities in, for example, Iraq or Palestine,
>> listening to someone describe the problems of community building in
SL. I
>> think grasping and holding onto this distinction is incredibly
>> important." We need to keep perspective when talking about these
virtual
>> worlds and to remember that, however they provide us with
experiential or
>> spiritual stimulation, they are still secondary to the actual
>> life-or-death circumstances most global citizens face.
>>
>> Looking forward to more discussion of this going forward; I trust
that,
>> in the face of so much media hype that inflates the economic and
>> sensational aspects of SL, we can all provide an ongoing
>> counter-commentary that provides a little more depth and context.
>>
>> -Josh Levy
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