[mtp-teoria] second life na iDC

Sun Mar 11 08:43:26 CET 2007

Ja tiez osobne nikoho nepoznam, ale opakujem: mne ako osobe to pride
zaujimave (uz len, kolko kontroverznych onych to vyvolava, ha,ha).
Myslela som, ze aj Multiplaceu ako zdruzeniu to moze prijst zaujimave, ked
teda riesime aj tie nove media, sak virtualny svet, no sak co to robi s
realnym? (mam taku fasa knizku na tuto temu keby niekto chcel MEYEROWITZ
Joshua, 2006, Všude a nikde, Vliv elektronických médií na sociální
chování, Praha. maju v art fore)

eh, ja nejak nemozem prist na chut tym kapitalistickym debatam, prominte...
som akoze kapitalista, ked zarabam prachy a nezijem z lasky? som akoze
hnusak nechutny, ked svojim nakupom v tescu zabijam cernoskov v afrike?

"vedia byt stastni v servilite voci kapitalizmu realneho sveta.. "
tomu asi nerozumiem, alebo tak ako moze byt niekto debil realne, moze byt
aj virtualne :) to je ako ked co ja viem cirkev bude tvrdit, ze zakazte
pocitace, lebo je tam porno. Sak to je len nejaky tool
Inak mame ist na Kubu, ked kapitalizmus je zly? alebo co z toho vyplyva?

multiplace to nezavazuje k ziadnej masovej financnej injekcii americkemu
kapitalizmu :)
iba ak dodat slovenskych umelcov, ak teda nie su vsetci "dobri anarchisti"
co k takemu hnusu ani nepricuchnu.
asi to nejak prehanam, lebo sa mi zda prehnana jedna strana :) to je len
akoze moj pohlad, pride ten kristian z noveho sadu, jeho nazor by som
brala teda viac do uvahy...

z

On Sat, March 10, 2007 10:56 pm, babuta at 34.sk wrote:
> ahoj ja nepoznam veru nikoho kto by tam "zil" a neviem ci by sa mne osobne
> do toho chcelo, budovat si tam nejaky virtualny svet, aj ked je pravda, ze
> o tom vela neviem. ze co sa tam akoze deje a ponuka...
>
> {vlastne mtp ak teraz isiel ako spoluorganizator do tych ostrovov, tak sa
>  zaviazal presne k comu? alebo to bol len podpis pro forma?}
>
> no a akurat som bola prisla z kina kde som bola druhy krat uz pozriet
> markove skopove ine svety, tak to je podla mna second life...
>
> ale to len tak aby sa vedelo aj nieco z ineho oneho zitia caute
>
> bbt
>
> On Sat, March 10, 2007 7:59 pm, dusan wrote:
>
>> ahojte
>>
>> na iDC liste prebehla dvojtyzdnova debata o second life (SL). v sumari
>> nizsie.
>>
>> kto nan nemate cas, zhrnuty v jednej vete: SL a vobec vacsina online
>> virtualnych svetov 'pozuje' ako otvorena platforma a i napriek vedomiu,
>> ze z "nematerialnej" prace (napr. univerzity do nich klonuju svoje
>> budovy, aktivisti v nich vedu svoje kampane) profituje viacmenej len
>> elita online podnikatelov, vela uzivatelov je v SL stastnych podobne ako
>> vedia byt stastni v servilite voci kapitalizmu realneho sveta..
>>
>> mate so SL niekto skusenosti? neviem v sk/cz zatial o vela ludoch co ho
>>  skusali. (mm trochu to znie ako znie to trochu ako)
>>
>> dusan
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------- Original Message
>> ----------------------------
>> Subject: [iDC] Second Life wrap-up; thanks
>> From:    "Joshua Levy" <joshualev at gmail.com>
>> Date:    Sat, March 10, 2007 5:27 pm
>> To:      "IDC list" <idc at bbs.thing.net>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks all for a stimulating discussion about Second Life, gaming,
>> labor, and education.
>>
>> Who is manufacturing virtual worlds and MMOs?  In response to Michel
>> Bauwens question about this, Ana Valdes points out that the games market
>>  is almost 100 percent American, with these large companies having
>> bought our smaller European companies over time.  However, Julian
>> Dibbell points
>> to a chart that suggests that U.S. companies are in fact responsible for
>>  only 40-60% of worldwide games and the us market share is 61.3%.   The
>>  question of market dominance vs. ideological dominance comes into play
>>  here.  Ana argues that, even if the market share isn't 100%, most
>> video games share an ideology with the U.S., though Michel says he
>> witnesses in Thailand dominant themes from Korea and Japan.
>>
>>
>>
>> And on to the big L, which inspired some of the best discussion on the
>> cultural ramifications of virtual worlds, virtual labor, and virtual
>> economies.  Trebor opened the discussion by questioning the need to
>> replicate the architecture of real-world sites within Second Life.
>> "Why
>> do we need a replication of our own campus? Why not rather build a Black
>>  Mountain College with a Bauhaus Annex? Why teach in this virtual
>> environment? Will SecondLife become a 3D version of Wikipedia, a virtual
>>  knowledge bank that offers a playful and fun interface to
>> participant-generated content? Will students simply demand such playful
>>  access to knowledge?" he asks.  Eric Gordon offers a compelling
>> argument for why he helped reproduce Emerson College's architecture in
>> SL: "our
>> decision to reproduce the architectural layout of campus and to recreate
>>  the Boston Common was deliberately made to correspond with our
>> understanding of the platform's possibilities.  We see Second Life as a
>>  way of creatively re-imagining the space.  While, we're not able to
>> screen student work in the physical Boston Common, it will be possible
>> to do so in Second Life.  "
>>
>> In addition to this recreation of material space, he finds that SL
>> mirrors "first life capitalism" as well, that inequalities between labor
>>  and capital exist there as they do anywhere else in the world.   Like
>> historical relations between labor and capital, Trebor argues that
>> users of sociable web media are not aware of their servitude towards the
>> owners of those systems, though, like Michel, I take issue with his
>> assertion that "many people in the US actually think that they are
>> 'happy' and
>> perceive this distributed labor of the sociable web as a fun leisure
>> activity."  We are not in a position to judge what many people in the
>> U.S..
>> think about their station in life, and to imply that the distributed
>> labor of the sociable web simply provides gains for the owners of
>> capital while pulling the wool over the eyes of the participants isn't
>> fair towards either party.
>>
>> Alan Clinton offers a refreshing take on the problem of virtual labor:
>> "At
>> the risk of revising Marcuse, couldn't we say that consciousness of
>> servitude is not really the problem so much as providing strategies for
>>  political agency?  People who are laboring know that they are
>> laboring. People (and let's not dismiss the global south so quickly) who
>> are suffering the violence of capitalism know they are suffering the
>> violence of servitude.  They may lack awareness of ways to name this
>> violence or attack it, but they are not unaware of their suffering." In
>> response to the problem of proprietary systems like SL posing as open
>> platforms, Andreas Schiffler suggests a radical, peer-to-peer system
>> that involving shared servers and open source software that become a
>> challenge to the "'Operating System + Deskop' metaphor sold by Microsoft
>> and Apple." This setup could also provide an
>> open source and peer-to-peer alternative to SL.
>>
>> In response to Simon Biggs' provocation that "SL is a misnomer. It is
>> not a second life but simply a kind of first life, as constructed by a
>> dominant elite, represented in such a manner that it will function to
>> further inculcate and embed its associated ideology on a global scale.
>> It
>> will sustain the fundamental ethic of consumerism...that we are all
>> potential suckers or grifters (often both) and that nobody is
>> responsible for what happens to anybody else. In short, it is another
>> rip off culture," I would point him to a group that I'm involved with,
>> RootsCampSL, progressive activists that use SL as a platform for their
>> work.  No one that I know there believes that their work stays in SL,
>> but that it offers a unique space (in addition to other unique space)
>> from whic to get the message out.  I would agree that SL is not a second
>> life but in fact an extension of first life, but I have failed to find a
>>  dominant ideology there and in fact find it a fertile training ground
>> for almost any ideology at all -- kind of like first life. Of course, I
>> could just be blind to my own exploitation...
>>
>> And Charlie Gere helps us remember that terrorism, exploitation, or
>> even rape in SL are not the same as their real-world counterparts.
>> "Again
>> imagine the reaction of someone who has been involved in attempting to
>> build and sustain communities in, for example, Iraq or Palestine,
>> listening to someone describe the problems of community building in SL.
>> I
>> think grasping and holding onto this distinction is incredibly
>> important." We need to keep perspective when talking about these
>> virtual worlds and to remember that, however they provide us with
>> experiential or spiritual stimulation, they are still secondary to the
>> actual life-or-death circumstances most global citizens face.
>>
>> Looking forward to more discussion of this going forward; I trust that,
>>  in the face of so much media hype that inflates the economic and
>> sensational aspects of SL, we can all provide an ongoing
>> counter-commentary that provides a little more depth and context.
>>
>> -Josh Levy
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